Are AI suggested tags now completely removed for all users?

Are AI suggested tags now completely removed for all users?

If so, why?

For Gold users, this was removed too, right?

What is the reason for this? Or is it a bug?

For me, like most AI artists, there is no point in using this site anymore, as it allowed me to create the highest quality tags for my images and use them on other sites, while also publishing arts on your site.

If this is not available even for Gold users, then that's sad =(

From the staff: tl;dr, yes

cumsonics said:

Are AI suggested tags now completely removed for all users?

If so, why?

For Gold users, this was removed too, right?

What is the reason for this? Or is it a bug?

For me, like most AI artists, there is no point in using this site anymore, as it allowed me to create the highest quality tags for my images and use them on other sites, while also publishing arts on your site.

If this is not available even for Gold users, then that's sad =(

Have you seen what's written on your feedback? That is exactly why it has been restricted from most users.

Lyren said:

Have you seen what's written on your feedback? That is exactly why it has been restricted from most users.

My subsequent pictures had quality tags. You can see this by looking at all my posts. Only in one I accidentally sent the wrong set of tags, but that was only because I copied the wrong tags from my documents with prepared tags.

The fact that it is abused by newbies does not mean that all other users should be deprived of it (Gold).

One way or another, this site was interesting to AI artists and honest taggers mainly due to the functionality of automatic selection of AI tags.

cumsonics said:

My subsequent pictures had quality tags. You can see this by looking at all my posts. Only in one I accidentally sent the wrong set of tags, but that was only because I copied the wrong tags from my documents with prepared tags.

The fact that it is abused by newbies does not mean that all other users should be deprived of it (Gold).

One way or another, this site was interesting to AI artists and honest taggers mainly due to the functionality of automatic selection of AI tags.

post #86099:
- grey background & blue background even though thebackground is monotone
- closed mouth & open mouth at the same time is physically not even possible so one of them is obviously wrong
- no bra wiki: "Wearing a shirt or top with no bra." - Where is the shirt?
- short hair & medium hair why are both selected? It's supposed to be only one. I only see one character.
- Isn't this more like watermark than a signature?
- white outline... where though?

post #86098:
- Again, why is no bra in here?
- This is not even close to straight-on

post #85754:
- covered nipples is quite clearly wrong
- Two different breast tags (large breasts & huge breasts) despite it being solo post with no asymmetrical breasts
- blush & light blush, this is just tag bloating, it's supposed to be only one
- Again, why signature?
- white hair & blonde hair on same post even though the hair has only one color
- I still can't spot the white outline

This was just examples from three of your most recent posts. So saying "Only in one I accidentally sent the wrong set of tags" is outright lie.

Lyren said:

post #86099:
- grey background & blue background even though thebackground is monotone
- closed mouth & open mouth at the same time is physically not even possible so one of them is obviously wrong
- no bra wiki: "Wearing a shirt or top with no bra." - Where is the shirt?
- short hair & medium hair why are both selected? It's supposed to be only one. I only see one character.
- Isn't this more like watermark than a signature?
- white outline... where though?

post #86098:
- Again, why is no bra in here?
- This is not even close to straight-on

post #85754:
- covered nipples is quite clearly wrong
- Two different breast tags (large breasts & huge breasts) despite it being solo post with no asymmetrical breasts
- blush & light blush, this is just tag bloating, it's supposed to be only one
- Again, why signature?
- white hair & blonde hair on same post even though the hair has only one color
- I still can't spot the white outline

This was just examples from three of your most recent posts. So saying "Only in one I accidentally sent the wrong set of tags" is outright lie.

There are no radical tagging violations from the examples you provided. I may have missed or misidentified tag names (white_gloves - white_outline), but these are isolated tags that can be fixed if necessary.

And why doesn't the signature match my watermarks? The fact that my signatures are in block letters does not exclude it from the "signature" category. Otherwise, you need to add this to your site's Wiki, since this is not a sufficiently demanding description.

Is this a radical tagging violation for your site for content makers who do not directly tag on a regular basis?

"So saying "Only in one I accidentally sent the wrong set of tags" is outright lie." - But I do not radically violate the tagging rules, as was the case in my post when you feedback me. The fact that I misidentified two or three tags does not mean that I am a "outright lie".

Lyren said:

post #86099:
- grey background & blue background even though thebackground is monotone
- closed mouth & open mouth at the same time is physically not even possible so one of them is obviously wrong
- no bra wiki: "Wearing a shirt or top with no bra." - Where is the shirt?
- short hair & medium hair why are both selected? It's supposed to be only one. I only see one character.
- Isn't this more like watermark than a signature?
- white outline... where though?

post #86098:
- Again, why is no bra in here?
- This is not even close to straight-on

post #85754:
- covered nipples is quite clearly wrong
- Two different breast tags (large breasts & huge breasts) despite it being solo post with no asymmetrical breasts
- blush & light blush, this is just tag bloating, it's supposed to be only one
- Again, why signature?
- white hair & blonde hair on same post even though the hair has only one color
- I still can't spot the white outline

This was just examples from three of your most recent posts. So saying "Only in one I accidentally sent the wrong set of tags" is outright lie.

Regarding the signature - I put this tag also because I looked at other images in this tag. And there are a huge number of images (including very old ones) that can be marked as watermarks, and not as a signature. I thought that if the moderators do not remove these images from the tag, then it is acceptable for me to use "signature" too.

And based on this, I also used "signature" as an appropriate tag (along with watermark) for my images.

If I am wrong, then you should update the Wiki for "signature" and remove the tag from other images for the tag.

https://aibooru.online/posts?tags=signature

You're seriously trying to complain about signature of all tags? How in the world is a bunch of URLs watermarking an image even remotely interpretable as a "signature"? And even if it was blatant in the wiki, you clearly would not read it, because you didn't read the wikis for things like covered nipples or no bra either. Or what is more likely is you just mindlessly added random shit from the AI tags list without even verifying if they made any sense. It doesn't count as "isolated incidents" when you have half a dozen wrong tags per post.

Good luck in your work!

I think we can end the discussion here.

My AI-suggested tags are gone too and I didn't get any notice 🤷🏻‍♀️

Yeah, what's up with that? Punishing everybody for actions of some bad taggers? Making a site that was already restrictive and inconvenient to use even more so? Applying suggested tags was already restricted to Gold+ users. What's next, removing the autocompletion of tags? Solving five captchas and filling a form before each upload?
Also, why no official announcement? I had to dig through hundreds of Discord messages to even get a glimpse of what's going on.

tyto4tme4l said:

Yeah, what's up with that? Punishing everybody for actions of some bad taggers? Making a site that was already restrictive and inconvenient to use even more so? Applying suggested tags was already restricted to Gold+ users. What's next, removing the autocompletion of tags? Solving five captchas and filling a form before each upload?
Also, why no official announcement? I had to dig through hundreds of Discord messages to even get a glimpse of what's going on.

What do you mean by "restrictive and inconvenient to use?"

As for disabling the autotagger feature, one one hand I understand the reasoning, as I've seen many posts with random tags slapped onto them, showing that the uploader didn't even bother checking what they were tagging. Also, I'm not sure at what level this was disabled - do the images still get processed by the tagger or not? In the latter case, I guess it has the added benefit of saving some resources. On the other hand, it is a bit of a pain in the ass, especially when I'm on my phone, since I now have to type out the tags. And it's entirely possible that some people are now undertagging their posts because they forget about certain tags that would normally be suggested to them (I've seen a number of posts missing 1girl + solo for example).
Couldn't we have this back for gold+ users and then take that privilege away from certain users who abuse it?

strong_hand said:

What do you mean by "restrictive and inconvenient to use?"

Well, my two biggest gripes are the approval process that uses very subjective criteria (basically one of the approvers must like your post enough) and the excessive amount of various tags, which require some serious amount of studying to apply comprehensively and correctly. I don't like this UI overall and find sites like Derpibooru way, way more convenient to use.
Oh yeah, if most of the posts have to be approved anyway, can't the mistagged posts be deleted then?

tyto4tme4l said:

Well, my two biggest gripes are the approval process that uses very subjective criteria (basically one of the approvers must like your post enough) and the excessive amount of various tags, which require some serious amount of studying to apply comprehensively and correctly. I don't like this UI overall and find sites like Derpibooru way, way more convenient to use.
Oh yeah, if most of the posts have to be approved anyway, can't the mistagged posts be deleted then?

I agree that the approval system is a bit too subjective when it comes to content, however I think it's working pretty well here in terms of image quality. Learning how to tag the basic things is not that hard. Nobody expects you to know every niche tag (though it is much appreciated if you go out of your way to learn and apply them). I don't think it's too much to ask that prople learn a mental checklist of 20ish items?
As for the UI, I find it pretty good. I'd never heard of derpibooru, so I googled it and my initial impression was that the site is quite a mess UI/UX-wise. Maybe what you're referring to is the feature where you can delete tags by just clicking them? If not then I'm not sure how it's better than danbooru GUI.
And finally, the tagging on a post is not subject to approval, only the image itself, so we wouldn't do that.

(Sorry for going off-topic)

You can make a checklist by using the frequent tags box in your settings.
Here's some of my frequent tags. If you use this checklist, on most posts, >20 tags should be no problem. If you get familar with the tags and their wikis, then tagging should take <5 min.

If it was "just a few bad actors" it would be a different story. But seems more like half the people who uploaded anything just slapped on a bunch of random AI tags without even looking if they applied. It's a systemic issue too big to address without banning basically everyone who uses the site.

Penance said:

If it was "just a few bad actors" it would be a different story. But seems more like half the people who uploaded anything just slapped on a bunch of random AI tags without even looking if they applied. It's a systemic issue too big to address without banning basically everyone who uses the site.

Ok, what if we went about it the other way, granting autotagger permissions only to select few people who have proven they can use it properly?

You guys are complaining about losing functionality that's essentially equivalent to just tossing an image into a wd14-vit-tagger space. The autotagger wasn't like a holy grail of taggers, it was literally just wd-v1-4-vit-tagger-v2. SmilingWolf put v3 on HuggingFace months ago, so it wasn't even the newest wd14-vit-tagger.

Jemnite said:

You guys are complaining about losing functionality that's essentially equivalent to just tossing an image into a wd14-vit-tagger space. The autotagger wasn't like a holy grail of taggers, it was literally just wd-v1-4-vit-tagger-v2. SmilingWolf put v3 on HuggingFace months ago, so it wasn't even the newest wd14-vit-tagger.

I don't really care about it's tagging capabilities, it was jsut easier to tick checkboxes for the most common tags than type them out :p

strong_hand said:

Ok, what if we went about it the other way, granting autotagger permissions only to select few people who have proven they can use it properly?

Sounds reasonable. I guess it could be implemented as another permission like contributer or approver.

Contributor and Approver are not "permissions" and have not been for many years. The permission system was removed because it was not actually used by anything other than those former levels, and they were turned back into levels long ago. I'm not keen to re-implement it just because some people are too lazy to tag the image themselves (which actually takes less time than sifting through AI tags!).

Sure. I guess we can sticky this thread so people won't create new threads to complain about it.

In addition to the previous points, the AI tags can also be educational. I created a pic and learned that it was the_pose, a phrase I had never heard before. AI tags caught it and now I know what it is.

Sure, before some lazy people clicked on every box suggested like "seiza, wariza and yokozuwari", just cuz . Later approvers slapped them with corrections and warnings. But in this new era no one will even bother with this. All people will do, is just tag "sitting". And all rare tags will fade into obscurity.

noppersnop said:

Sure, before some lazy people clicked on every box suggested like "seiza, wariza and yokozuwari", just cuz . Later approvers slapped them with corrections and warnings. But in this new era no one will even bother with this. All people will do, is just tag "sitting". And all rare tags will fade into obscurity.

You can still search e.g. "ai:seiza" to get the same search results as if everyone had the access to suggested tags.

Lyren said:

You can still search e.g. "ai:seiza" to get the same search results as if everyone had the access to suggested tags.

Yeah, small amount of users will research exotic tags before posting them. My Core argument is thus: "Most people will not even know what to look/search for". new users will just type "from below", and they wont even know "The Dutch angle" exists. The "ai: tag", is a cool feature and can help mitigate this, and the information about this feature should be prolifirated more.

You can still run the tagger. Like this isn't some super secret model that Fred trained up, it's literally an open source model that is barely over 1GB in filesize and available for download on the internet. You don't even need to do the inference locally, there are hosted solutions on the internet that will do it. For free, even!

Inane that on a website for AI images nobody knows how to use AI unless they're hand-held through the process.

noppersnop said:

Yeah, small amount of users will research exotic tags before posting them. My Core argument is thus: "Most people will not even know what to look/search for". new users will just type "from below", and they wont even know "The Dutch angle" exists. The "ai: tag", is a cool feature and can help mitigate this, and the information about this feature should be prolifirated more.

When suggested tags are enabled, more people will know about the existence of various tags more, but they won't learn how to use them. Only those small amount of users you mentioned will, as they are willing to check the wiki. dutch_angle is great example for this now that you mention it as it is something a human has to feel rather than be based on rules that are set on stone. Searching ai:dutch_angle -dutch_angle I can find post #11252 for example. Person solely using suggested tags sees it being suggested and thinks "oh, it's in the Suggested Tags so I should tag this. This is how I should use this tag" and never learn how to use the tags properly.

What if a tag changes its purpose? What about new tags? Suggested tags won't ever suggest those. People who are too lazy to tag properly won't ever bother to check forums, wikis, tag changes, Discord, anything, they just slap the tags that always do and move on. This is more of a long term issue so the two examples I have are not that good but gets the point across:

• Commentary tags: Commentary is never part of the image, so AI won't ever suggest it. Who tags it? Only like 4 people in the whole site.
• eyebrows_visible_through_hair: Bringing this as an example as it was a tag that was already gone in Danbooru when suggested tags were trained. This is why it won't ever be suggested and nobody knows about it. This'll eventually be the same issue to all other tags that either change or are simply newer than whenever the AI tags were trained.

Jemnite said:

You can still run the tagger. Like this isn't some super secret model that Fred trained up, it's literally an open source model that is barely over 1GB in filesize and available for download on the internet. You don't even need to do the inference locally, there are hosted solutions on the internet that will do it. For free, even!

Inane that on a website for AI images nobody knows how to use AI unless they're hand-held through the process.

I don't know why people assume that everyone on aibooru is an AI enthusiast? Some people just like AI art.

That being said, you don't even need to download or run anything. If you just go to the "All uploads" tab and open the image you just uploaded, the AI tags are still there. However, since this feature's main selling point (at least in my view) is convenience, I doubt many people would be willing to do even that just to have some tag suggestions.

Lyren said:

When suggested tags are enabled, more people will know about the existence of various tags more, but they won't learn how to use them. Only those small amount of users you mentioned will, as they are willing to check the wiki. dutch_angle is great example for this now that you mention it as it is something a human has to feel rather than be based on rules that are set on stone. Searching ai:dutch_angle -dutch_angle I can find post #11252 for example. Person solely using suggested tags sees it being suggested and thinks "oh, it's in the Suggested Tags so I should tag this. This is how I should use this tag" and never learn how to use the tags properly.

What if a tag changes its purpose? What about new tags? Suggested tags won't ever suggest those. People who are too lazy to tag properly won't ever bother to check forums, wikis, tag changes, Discord, anything, they just slap the tags that always do and move on. This is more of a long term issue so the two examples I have are not that good but gets the point across:

• Commentary tags: Commentary is never part of the image, so AI won't ever suggest it. Who tags it? Only like 4 people in the whole site.
• eyebrows_visible_through_hair: Bringing this as an example as it was a tag that was already gone in Danbooru when suggested tags were trained. This is why it won't ever be suggested and nobody knows about it. This'll eventually be the same issue to all other tags that either change or are simply newer than whenever the AI tags were trained.

I agree; the people who would be willing to improve their tagging skills are also probably the ones that can do without AI tags.

Oh, and as for that commentary part, I'm guilty as charged <bleh.gif>

Jemnite said:

Inane that on a website for AI images nobody knows how to use AI unless they're hand-held through the process.

The overlap of people who are "AI enthusiasts" and people who actually know anything about computer systems is almost nonexistent.

noppersnop said:

Yeah, small amount of users will research exotic tags before posting them. My Core argument is thus: "Most people will not even know what to look/search for". new users will just type "from below", and they wont even know "The Dutch angle" exists. The "ai: tag", is a cool feature and can help mitigate this, and the information about this feature should be prolifirated more.

Somehow people managed to do that just fine in the span of over a decade before AI tagging existed on Danbooru!

Penance said:

The overlap of people who are "AI enthusiasts" and people who actually know anything about computer systems is almost nonexistent.

Somehow people managed to do that just fine in the span of over a decade before AI tagging existed on Danbooru!

If you think that "AI enthusiasts" will not think of using autotaggers locally on their computers or simply will not use workspaces on huggingface, then you are wrong.

Think about "Why "AI enthusiasts" found your site?"

Using an autotagger on your site does not play a major role for the "AI enthusiast" in terms of creating automatic tags for images, since it is not the autotagger that plays an important role here, but the banal convenience of using tags already existing on the site and learning new tags that the user did not know about (but to whom your autotagger offers new tags). For me, as a user, it was simply convenient to publish content and tag it, since your site and autotagger solved several problems:
- It offered tags from which you could choose the right ones. Very quickly and for a large amount of content.
- It offered "technical" tags.
- The user chooses the tags suggested by your SITE, and does not submit tags from some other autotaggers that he found on the Internet. Newbies in AI will probably use bad (inappropriate) autotagers, which is why they will upload images with poor quality tags to your site, and not what your site suggests.
- It was possible to more conveniently and quickly add new tags manually in the text field itself (for example, with characters that have appeared recently, which the autotager does not know about) - this is also convenient in combination with the autotagger.
- Thanks to the autotagger, it was possible to learn new tags, although not immediately and not all of them. It was easier and faster for newbies to learn new tags, although they make a lot of mistakes and are often lazy (for this, this toy can be taken away from them, and not punish all users of the site).
- It is easier for honest users and moderators to add good tags (by performing all actions on the site) or to add tags to existing pictures.

Now, those who used your site to create more or less high-quality tags for their pictures will be forced to do all this locally or on other sites with a similar system. This will simply lead to an outflow of people who uploaded content to your site. But the worst thing for you is that now "AI enthusiasts" instead of using your convenient interface will use local tag generators, and, which is very likely, will not even check these tags with a huge probability in relation to your site and upload these terrible tags without paying attention to reputation and all that.

I see from the posts that even with the autotagger disabled, posts with a huge list of tags of dubious quality appear on the site. And as the site grows, this trend will only get worse, since newbies will use all this with less care.

The problem is not that your autotagger allows people to "do tags automatically and not care about quality", but that autotaggers appeared at all. Danbooru could exist without autotags for years, because there was no autotagger and people had to do everything manually, but the number of tags on average for each picture on Danbooru is no more than 30 pieces. In addition, artists did not make so much content to worry about writing tags, unlike "AI enthusiasts". AI enthusiasts, in connection with the appearance of autotaggers, are in dire need of high-quality autotagers, and they will look for them / buy / train them to solve their problem. "Somehow people managed to do that just fine in the span of over a decade" - does not work when automation appears, available to everyone. On AIbooru, instead of fighting with people who use autotaggers, it would be better to retrain the autotagger Danbooru based on the new neural networks, since it has not been updated for over two years (or implement existing ones, such as wd-eva02-large-tagger-v3, if the tags match). And also limit the number of suggested tags for images to 30, with a match percentage of 65+. This will greatly improve the quality of image tagging, people will make fewer mistakes (with a small number of suggested tags, it will be easier for them to remove unnecessary ones). At the same time, moderators can be given access to extended tags (100+ tags with a match percentage of 30+), so that they add suitable tags.

If you look at the autotagger wd-eva02-large-tagger-v3, it currently has colossal accuracy in identifying tags. It is very surprising how accurately it produces results. But tags from wd-eva02-large-tagger-v3 and other similar autotagers do not always match aibooru tags, and this is already a problem for aibooru if someone uses these tags when publishing content on aibooru, not paying attention to the problems with the autotagger.

Remember one thing - when you force people to use external tools (in this case, local deployment autotagers), you will get the sores and problems of external tools that do not match your data and content sets.

The same applies to Danbooru - it will suffer the same disease due to the spread of external free autotagers. Regular artists are already starting to use this, too, although they themselves are against the development of "AI tools" (and it's fun to watch).

And don't take my messages as criticism or requests to return the autotagger and checkboxes. I don't care what happens to this function. I, like other users, will always find other sites or programs where it is convenient and easier for us to work with content, where it is easier to distribute it.

But take my message as one of the serious reviews that tries to show you that there is no "black and white" and there is a trend that you need to adapt to.

I will simply hope for the best, that future autotaggers will give almost perfect tags, so that your sites will not have problems with those people who will use external autotaggers; so that they do not harm you.

Ok.